After snagging 24 Emmy nominations, it seems that the proof is in the waddle when it comes to HBO Max’s limited series The Penguin. Set in after the events of Matt Reeves’ The Batman, the series follows the thuggish misadventures of Oswald “Oz” Cobb (Colin Farrell) and his battle with Sofia Falcone (Cristin Milioti) as they both desire to reign supreme in the Gotham City crime syndicate.
The secret to the show’s success? Subverting expectations of what viewers might think they know about one of pop culture’s most prolific fictional cities.
According to creator and showrunner Lauren LeFranc, “the show [was] really challenging to make in so many ways, because we were trying to do something different than what people would expect,” she told Deadline. “There’s a lot of conversations that I had about the vision for the show and the tone of the show, and so many conversations with our actors, and honestly, everybody in the crew. It was so amazing because they all were so passionate about wanting to do right by what we were seeking to do. There was just an energy on set that we’re making something special and different than whatever people were imagining about this being set in Gotham City.”
Taking the risk paid off as it led to double-digit nominations that include Outstanding Limited or Anthology Series, Outstanding Lead Actress in a Limited or Anthology Series for Cristin Milioti, Outstanding Lead Actor in a Limited or Anthology Series or Movie for Colin Farrell and Outstanding Writing For A Limited Or Anthology Series Or Movie for LeFranc. “I’m just so grateful that people have been recognized in this way,” she said. “It’s truly an honor because our peers are recognizing us. Obviously, this is not why we do it, but I felt like when we were making this thing, it was a joy to make something so dark and twisted.”
Below, LeFranc unpacks her thoughts about the staggering reception of the series, making Gotham City her own and memorable fan favorite scenes.
DEADLINE: The show has racked up 24 Emmy nominations. Is it still blowing your mind how receptive everyone has been to the series?
LAUREN LEFRANC: Yeah, honestly. I love being in a writer’s room. I love the conception of ideas. I love research and stuff. So, I can still harken back very vividly to just starting the show. I remember when I started on my own, thinking about different ideas and coming up with the characters’ emotional arcs. Then, I brought in all these great, smart writers, and every step and stage, having the privilege to work with our insanely talented cast and crew. I recall being in rooms with all our department heads, many of whom have also been nominated; they’re all incredibly kind and talented. I’m just so grateful that people have been recognized in this way. It’s truly an honor because our peers are recognizing us. Obviously, this is not why we do it, but I felt like when we were making this thing, it was a joy to make something so dark and twisted.
DEADLINE: Were there any fun non-negotiables that you, Matt Reeves or the writer’s room had to have in the series?
LEFRANC: I did a lot of work prior to the room starting on all of our characters and developing them and their backstories. That’s the most important work to me. So, I came into the room just to get everything out of my head that I could, so I could tell the other writers what I was thinking. I knew everyone’s emotional arc. I knew where I wanted them to end. I knew the last scene of our show would be Oz dancing with Eve dressed as his mother. I knew Oz would kill Victor in this intimate, terrible way. And so, for me, the non-negotiables were these are the characters and the type of story we’re telling. It’s grounded. It’s a crime drama. It’s a character study of everybody. Every character needs to feel rich and alive. And that’s really the thing that I came in with, and that’s the job of a writer. So, everyone was incredible and helpful in shaping all the characters and building the story around them.
Rhenzy Feliz as Victor in ‘The Penguin’
HBO Max
DEADLINE: Since you brought Vic up, I have to ask you on behalf of the fandom. How do you sleep at night knowing that he’s gone? I understand that thematically and structurally, his arc makes sense in Oz’s story, but what a sad death!
LEFRANC: [Laughs]. As I mentioned earlier, I knew from the start that Vic would die and Oz would kill him before the room started, but that wasn’t the reason for the structure. One reason was that I wanted to create a kid like Victor. I’m half Mexican, and I wanted a Latino on screen who was depicted in a way that was different from the stereotypes. So, there was this burden on Rhenzy [Feliz] and on the character of Victor to have you care deeply for him. You can see he has a good heart, and he really is the heartbeat of the show. And if you didn’t feel that way, then his death would be meaningless. And it was so crucial that by the end, to me, that there would be an uproar. That’s what I was seeking; I didn’t want him to die in vain. He deserved more than what he got. And I wanted everybody in the audience to feel that way and feel betrayed by Oz, by what he chooses to do, because he did not have to do that.
DEADLINE: Don’t remind me.
LEFRANC: Oz chose to do it. There was no justification for it. Victor was loyal through and through, despite so many different circumstances. So, I wanted it to be heartbreaking. It hurt me too. It doesn’t take away the pain, I know, but it was hard to write. I didn’t want to write it. I was dreading writing it for a long time. And Henk Van Eeghen, our editor of that episode, I remember him talking to me about when he was cutting it together for the first time and how upset he got. He and I spent a lot of time making it as painful as possible. And Rhenzy and Colin [Farrell] in that scene were excellent. And when they came in, everybody knew the weight of that scene, our whole crew. No one wanted it to happen. I remember the air that night was sad.
DEADLINE: Another iconic moment is Sofia Falcone walking through the house with a gas mask on. How did that scene come to fruition?
LEFRANC: It was such a collaboration. Cristin [Milioti] and Helen Shaver, who directed that episode so beautifully, and Helen Huang, our costume designer, it was just a massive team effort because it was really important to find a great dress–it was always in the script, the idea of the gas mask in contrast to her exposing her scars for the first time. So, we knew it needed to allow for that, but we didn’t want it to be too sexy. It’s just a moment where Sofia is feeling herself in that moment, and she’s not afraid that her scars are showing. So, it’s a different sort of flow instead of seeing her in other, more confining wardrobes that she’s in prior to choosing that dress. We wanted it to feel poetic and beautiful, and that was how Helen filmed it.
An interesting thing was that it was really a challenge with our budget to be able to film all the different people who died in all these different rooms. That’s where Helen and I started discussing whether we could simply film Sofia’s feet, which would allow for simpler coverage practically, but also make for a more interesting artistic choice as she enters different rooms. Cristin then came in and was like, “I want to skip in my step a little. There’s a lightness there because Sofia is excited by what she’s choosing to do.” Then the editor of that episode, Meg Reticker, our music supervisor, Jen Malone, would give the editors a lot of different songs to play with that she thought would be great, depending on the tone and scenes we’re in. There was this beautiful Sarah Vaughan song [“Song Long My Love”], and Meg put it into that cut. That was the only song that we ever listened to because it just fit perfectly with the way Helen shot it and the way Cristin performed that sequence. It was an amazing display of collaboration behind the scenes.
Cristin Milioti as Sofia Falcone in ‘The Penguin’
HBO Max
DEADLINE: What was the most challenging part of creating this show for you? Was there something that you thought perhaps wasn’t going to work initially but ended up being better than you expected?
LEFRANC: This show is really challenging to make in so many ways, because we were trying to do something different than what people would expect. And whenever you’re seeking that, it’s always extra challenging. There’s a lot of conversations that I had about the vision for the show and the tone of the show, and so many conversations with our actors, and honestly, everybody in the crew. And it was so amazing because they all were so passionate about wanting to do right by what we were seeking to do. There was just an energy on set that we’re making something special and just different than whatever people were imagining about this being set in Gotham City. But honestly, there were so many things that I think about as a creator that could have gone horribly wrong. And it was a Herculean effort that they didn’t in some ways. One example is young Oz; we wrote some very challenging scenes for a young actor to perform. We auditioned many kids, and then Ryder Allen came in and was excellent. It was one of those moments where you’re like, “This is going to work.” Because that could not have.
Then, for Dee Dee [Deirdre O’Connell], when she came in as Francis Cobb, she had to learn the dialect that they established in the film for The Batman. That could have gone horribly wrong because it’s such a specific accent. And Dee Dee, being so professional and this unbelievable theater actress, came in and instantly nailed that dialect, and you’re like, “This is Oz’s mom. This works now.” And also, the energy between Colin and Dee Dee was electric out of the gate. There’s just so many moments like that. Obviously, Cristin coming in and what she brought to Sofia Falcone across the board is thrilling to witness.
[This interview has been edited for length and clarity]
